If you love the episode, please share and review. Kate Bowler:Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Okay, great. After the potency of the crime metaphor wore off, I turned to the vocabulary of religion. Kelly Corrigan:You dont always need such a plan, or an agenda, or whatever. For the Love of Conversations: Jen and Kelly on Hard and Beautiful Change Kelly Corrigan:Like, almost every time Im sure that if you just let me take over, I can make this problem go away. Im sorry to ask about the hard part, but would you mind telling me what happened? They reel and wander and fixate and roll back and reconsider, because its like this, having a mind. Kelly Corrigan:Youre feeling like ABC, not DEF. So thats the beauty of it. Kelly Corrigan:I sat at my dining room table, which is place I never write, and I thought, Oh my God, of course I know exactly what this is. Kelly Corrigan:Thats not a headline anybody wants to read. So, Dont eat a hamster is our version of Dont jump to conclusions.. Kilpy Please note that this episode references addiction and suicide. Best, Now a cognitive scientist and podcaster, Maya grew up immersed in the . Join New York Times bestselling author Kelly Corrigan as she choreographs big-ideas conversations with some of the creative thinkers and artists who define our time. Kelly Corrigan:My instinct is to fix, cause I feel Im almost sure I can. And then right on the heels of that, I think, What would Liz do for this?. I always asked her this when I wondered if I was handsome in any way. Kelly Corrigan:So, my husband worked at a startup in San Francisco, which is called Medium, and its a writing platform, and as a writer, I was welcome to come, and use their office space, and its everything you think a San Francisco startup is. So, its funny that that phrase really begat the whole book in a way, because I had been feeling this shame about not really earning my days here, and then Ed and I were at dinner, and we were talking about the difference between saying Im sorry, and saying I was wrong, and I was saying, God, its so much more powerful though in the humility in saying I was wrong.. Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan is a series that inspires, educates and entertains. Kelly Corrigan:You cant be in the world, and get through your to-do list, and also sit in endless, rich gratitude. I didnt do it. Kate Bowler:Well I think part of it, and this gets to another phrase that you write about which is I dont know, but you and I, it sounds like, have given up on certainties as a way to cope with that, both having been through cancer, and also I think both realizing that people really dont like it when you say, I dont know.. One is called Yesterday and the other is called Tomorrow. Shes not going to hold their babies.. Kerri, It kind of reminded me though, when I was little, my family used to have these mottos, but the mottos were stuff like, Dont get crumbs on the baby, or Be nice to mom. Kate Bowler:Yeah, I believe you. If you haven't heard of Father Greg Boyle, let us introduce you: a Jesuit priest who has a touch of Santa Claus in his affect, Greg Boyle has collaborated with thousands of former gang members to build thriving businesses and communities of radical acceptance in East LA. Kelly Corrigan Wonders | iHeart What a unique family motto! Together, Kate and Kelly explore the phrases we cling to in order to find deeper connection and meaning during difficult times. Allison Wohl: A Toast Women | Faith & Story Kelly Corrigan:They hate it. Its remarkable to hear a bit of your story and Im really grateful that youve shared it with us. Today, Im speaking with New York Times bestselling author, Kelly Corrigan. Ten days before I was scheduled to defend my dissertation, English Policies, Curricular Reform and Teacher Development in Multilingual, Post-colonial Djibouti, I got the call. What do we do when the labels were given arent necessarily the ones we choose for ourselves? I even use it at the end of lectures like, Hey, this is the end of the 19th century. But I asked the doctor what the right term for me might be, and he said Survivor-in-progress, which was super annoying. Maybe Wills curious phrase, Its like this, applies here too. We have a lot to learn from you. And you know, it was so weird, but dying was the easier part of it. Onwards, but you use it so beautifully when youre talking about Lizs family and how they are now. And the potted plant theory, I cant credit it to someone, Im sorry, I dont know who put it out there, but the idea is that if you were to have a plant in your kitchen, you might not be aware of it at all, and then if someone were to remove it, youd say What happened to that plant?. We can remove the first show in the list to add this one. Kelly Corrigan:I was perhaps proud about it honestly, and I was reading 7 Habits of Highly Effective People at night with my big fat yellow highlighter, and I was really full of attachment to this identity that I had painted for myself. They swell, and constrict, and break, and forgive, and behold, because its like this, having a heart. I should not be mad about this. Kelly Corrigan:And how do we earn it? Read more on this here. Kate Bowler:Well, your book has such a wonderful collection of phrases around essays, stuff like Tell me more, and you write about incredible things people can say when theyre figuring out the road ahead. The successes of independent and feminist Marie Antoinette provoke jealousy and rivalry. Inspiring and thought-provoking interviews conducted by bestselling author Kelly Corrigan. Required fields are marked *. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Nobody who is between identities they can tolerate does, it seems to me something Ive actively struggled with and expect to go hand to hand with again, whether tomorrow or the day after. Michael Lewis on What Makes Some People Irreplaceable. I was wrong. In fact Im in the middle of reading both of your books right now. I mean so far, knock on wood, Im getting to see my kids be much, much older than she got to see her kids be. Youve shared some gems with us. Kate Bowler:Absolutely. Take Care Kate, I heard your friend died, and I just couldnt bear to call them back. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. You know, like it wasnt me. Weeks later, the missing hamster crawled out from under the stove. I was healthy, and then I was sick, and now Im feeling pretty good, and even though the language around immunotherapy isnt perfect, I can happily say that I am in remission. We should thank the chef. Kelly Corrigan:I mean, thats where it is. Its all this cumulative effect of a thousand minuscule moments. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Describing the middle school drama teacher as the first person who believed in her, she imparts her gratitude for him coming to her defense as a young student. The space between doubt and belief is often unpopular, but the tension can be held. She has a beloved podcast called Everything Happens. So, God is generous was my dads way of promising us a better future. Then the ocean with its waves so vast, impossible to touch bottom, then a maze, then a mountain, then seasons, a natural disaster. Kelly Corrigan:Sure, my pleasure. The book is full of warm and witty blessings found within the struggles of our shared humanity, from theNew York Timesbestselling authors ofGood Enough. Mary Anne, Mary Anne, Inspiring and thought-provoking interviews conducted by author Kelly Corrigan. Kelly Corrigan:You know, that I had lost his favor for a moment, and I was just so ashamed. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah, and theres forgiveness and acceptance kind of intertwined there that you know, youre going to forget. Michael Lewis sends his thanks to Dr. Arthur White, a former history teacher at Isidore Newman School in New Orleans, Louisiana, for kicking him in class whenever hed fall asleep. Constance Wu also thanks a past educator of hers, Mr. Frizzle. Sometimes, were just lacking a bit of language. Duration: 3:0 Transcript HARI SREENIVASAN: Now to another in our Brief But Spectacular. Kelly Corrigan:Well, chop-chop kid. Kate Bowler:Those ordinary consonants and vowels that, when strung together, offer meaning and points of entry for others. Kelly Corrigan:Now maybe Im going to go to Durham, and now maybe Im going to get my PhD in Divinity. In other words, it could happen to you tomorrow.. I was also living only maybe 10 miles from my very old grandma who lived alone, and I kept kind of meaning to go visit her, but its a lot easier to show up at work every day at the United Way, and get kind of righteous about all the people who work for money versus the rest of us who are working for the greater good, than it is to go to your grandmas smelly, weird apartment, and have weird conversations with an 88-year old, you know? Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Kate Bowler:Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Thank you for adding to the number of not-normal, cry-at-the-drop-of-a-hat people in the world. Go get mixed up in something. I love your book and your honesty as I keep questioning everything. We were living in Damascus, Syria, and whenever one of us asked for something Mom and Dad couldnt afford, Dad would say Allah Kareem. In Arabic, Allah means God. The idea that any day could be this huge day, I dont know, that really gets me out of bed, you know? Best, Kelly Corrigan:Thanks. Theres a whole world out there happening, and you can step into all kinds of things, and you dont need to know why youre leaving the house. Shes not going to hold their babies.. Kelly Corrigan:So, she had to call someone and ask them to come over and zip her dress so she could go to the wedding. So, I was wondering, would you mind reading that beautiful passage you wrote about after Liz died? I went to see her one time. Kelly Corrigan:Where you can feel the person kind of asking around, snooping just enough, and its not for your sake. Then the ocean with its waves so vast, impossible to touch bottom, then a maze, then a mountain, then seasons, a natural disaster. Thats the word. What do we do when the labels we're given aren't necessarily the ones we choose for ourselves? Kelly Corrigan:Yeah, and theres forgiveness and acceptance kind of intertwined there that you know, youre going to forget. Kelly Corrigan:Its like a game changer. So, I really appreciated the way that you framed the bigness and the smallness of it, because it has to be both. Its like this now seems like a helpful way to process changethanks for offering that up . You surely know about hard times, and I love that you are continuing to show up every day. And you know, it was so weird, but dying was the easier part of it. So, I just really went bananas, because on top of the shirt problem, I went downstairs to clean the kitchen, and I found everybodys bowls, and spoons, and cups, and I had that reaction that so many women have, which is, Well I guess Im the least busy. Kelly Corrigan:You cant be in the world, and get through your to-do list, and also sit in endless, rich gratitude. Kelly Corrigan:Thanks. Kate Bowler:I guess Ill see you soon. Your email address will not be published. Kindly, It was the very last thing that I wrote, and you may be able to relate to this, theres always one part of a book that writes itself, at least for me, where its like, I guess Ive been thinking about this long enough, I guess Ive been living this long enough that its all kind of been subconsciously forming, and now Im just about taking dictation here, and thats the way that was. Corrigan and her guests dig into such questions as "Is knowing more always . Kelly Corrigan:Now maybe Im going to go to Durham, and now maybe Im going to get my PhD in Divinity. Id say that there is definitely such a thing as a questioning Christian. To learn more about Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies Ive Loved) by Kate Bowler, click here. Is this how you would have cared for my son?, and you end up fixating on all of these tiny little things, and at the same time, so overwhelmed by not being sure if its trivial or tragic. Dont worry, and she said, Well, my problem is I cant zip my dress by myself, so I thought if it was a woman, I could ask her to come in, and zip my dress, and I thought, Thats the tiny moments that are so gut-wrenching for a new widow. I think part of why your book is so moving is the way that these sayings crystallize these really big truths about who we are, and also how we should love each other. Kelly Corrigan Full Transcript - Kate Bowler Kelly Corrigan:And Im getting to walk with them way longer on their road, and I felt this sense that I could never possibly deserve that, that Im not that great a person, or a mom. Kareem means generous. She was really, really into manners, and as kind of an act of gratitude, not in an uptight, British way, but as a Look at us eating a meal together, like, Nobody should eat before the last person gets down. I went to see her one time. Thanks for sharing. Just get in the mix, get in the line of fire. But first, we need you to sign in to PBS using one of the services below. Its not in my family. This forgetting, this slide into smallness, this irritability in shame, this disorienting grief Its like this. Is this how you would have cared for my son?, and you end up fixating on all of these tiny little things, and at the same time, so overwhelmed by not being sure if its trivial or tragic. Kate Bowler:I do think people offer certainties when they think that youre proof of something that scares them, and they cant just live in the uncertainty of not knowing for a minute. Thats like total vanity but, especially with the kids, I definitely think, Edward and I both think, If you let us run this out for you, well get it done like one, two, three, and thats so humiliating, and degrading, and just the opposite of self-esteem building, which is sort of like the ground we walk on as adults. Its probably cause of something youve been eating. Kate Bowler:Yeah. And she said, Kelly, Im going to try to do the Uber to this wedding, and I was wondering if you can request a woman, and I said, No you cant, but you can trust it. This is one of the most moving and important conversations weve ever shared and we thank PBS for supporting this work as well as the Lafayette Library and Learning Center for hosting the shoot. Shed do anything. Im hearing all the music, Im totally tuned in to the right channel, and then just like that, I slip into those mundane irritants., Kelly Corrigan:And then I catch myself, and then I feel this sense of shame, and he said, Its like this. Ill read you a little bit from the very end of that chapter because the thing that he was saying I think is, This is how it goes.. I dont know, but a whole new world of possibilities exist right now that did not exist an hour and 10 minutes ago, and I think that is so cool, and real, and exciting. So much of what you both say resonates for me. Kelly Corrigan:And then she died, and my dad called, and my dad had nothing but positive things to say to me my entire life, and he said, You should have gone to see your grandmother more. I mean, people are getting colon cancer at your age all the time. Maya Shankars Plus One is Christy Warren, a former first responder with 25 years of experience in the field. Ive read Tell Me More twice already. Can we trust our gut? Kelly Corrigan:Well you know, sometimes the trivial is tragic. A phrase that I heard at a recent Pecha Kucha talk from a woman who had come through a terrible health crisis was Its like this now. Kilpy Then I wanted to get right with him, and urgently. You dont have to bring it all. Kate Bowler:I do think people offer certainties when they think that youre proof of something that scares them, and they cant just live in the uncertainty of not knowing for a minute. Kate Bowler: I'm Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. I think thats cause we were always sort of fighting nearby. My mom called me maybe three months after my dad died. Shes not going to their wedding, shes not going to pick out wedding dresses with them. What do you do when life doesnt fit into neat categories? Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Rocky is family, and we dont sell family, I replied. I rebelled. Ill definitely have to write this one down and bring it out on a particularly overwhelming day! Its the motto I live by when my opportunities are too big, and my capacity and capabilities too small. Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan | Maya Shankar | Season 5 | Episode 4 Kelly Corrigan Wonders on Apple Podcasts 296 episodes Welcome to Kelly Corrigan Wonders, a place for people who like to laugh while they think and find it useful to look closely at ourselves and our weird ways in the hopes that knowing more and feeling more will help us do more and be better. Kate Bowler:Well, the one that we sort of settled on most was, Dont let the turkeys get you down, cause we were all deeply unpopular children, but it did make me think about mottos, and how it sort of defines the season that we live in. She's really just an overall great human being. Ask the dancers, and the athletes, the painters, and musicians. How does change actually happen? Thanks For Being Here Remembering Ryland. RELATED LINKS Try this episode's happiness practice: 36 Questions for Increasing Closeness Read Kelly Corrigan's new book, Tell Me More Transcript I was in a big, big rush to get in front of him, and say my apology, and be returned to a state of grace, but the fact is that his mom died. Such is a reminder that success is the result of joined efforts and that all of us are touched by the ripples of others contributions. You talk about not having good language for your current state. I mean, maybe I was projecting, maybe whatever he said in that moment, maybe if he had said peanut butter, and jelly, wed be talking about peanut butter and jelly, but it totally resonated for me in the way that a song lyric does where youre like, I dont know what that means exactly, but Im going to write that down, and put it in my wallet, and its interesting. Surely, my friend, my lost and lovely friend, called for new words. I dont have the genetic predisposition. You are in good company. Perhaps weve got to choose which we want to continue and which we want to challenge. Kelly Corrigan:So, I get it, but I spend a lot of time with them, and Im madly in love with them, really, really have this deep, incredible connection with them that I just value so much, and they are in her, and you know, theyre everything that was so important to her. So, maybe when life is chronic, we all need some sayings to anchor us, our very own mottos that guide us through. Theres a whole world out there happening, and you can step into all kinds of things, and you dont need to know why youre leaving the house. Kelly Corrigan:One that Ive always liked is, Things happen when you leave the house. I think I like the sense of theres something out there that you can tap into. Thanks so much for your refreshing, poignant, thought-provoking podcast. Im sorry I didnt go see your mom. Thats not the same as saying I was wrong not to try to know her. I said, No, I just want to go back to Vietnam and do what I was doing. Absolutely enjoy these, the wisdom, the calm, the gentle reminder of our true reality and the essentiality of the connections we make and need to survive and help each other. Kelly Corrigan:The magic of Tell me more is you start telling me what youre upset about, and I fall for the first thing you say, and I start solving for that. This is the way this has to be, and its right there. Kate Bowler:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Enjoy an intimate and heartfelt interview series hosted by author Kelly Corrigan.MoreMore. My son was, of course, distraught and felt the dog was a part of the family and worth the trouble. Kelly Corrigan:And thats the truth. Team Everything Happens. I do need to be reminded of this often There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. You know, I honestly think I only say Im sorry, and not, I was wrong. I think I might try it. Thats the word. Kate Bowler:My life doesnt exactly fit into neat categories anymore.
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