Stephen: Yeah, weve covered a lot, and a lot of big stuff, so this one is kind of the hardest button to button. So thats sort of the first covering that takes place, is through that incense offering. Well, okay, so theres a little bit of backstory here, and again, Luke, using this detail about Christ being on the road to Emmaushes actually on the road to Emmaus, but everyone knows what Emmaus is famous for. Fr. https://t.co/vM0ulUmY0s, More than Schooling: The Perils of Pragmatism in Christian Attitudes Toward the Liberal Arts by Robin Phillips https://t.co/wh5X6dP63s, A post shared by Robin Phillips (@robin__phillips), Nine Things I Wish Someone Had Told Me About Parenting Teenagers, Barbados Sea Turtles and the Desire For God, G.K. Chesterton and the Sacramental Imagination, Interview with Ancient Faith about Gratitude in Lifes Trenches, The AI Apocalypse is Happening Right Nowbut not in the way you think, Virtue and Classical Education: A Commencement Address to a Graduating Class, understand ancient texts through the lens of their original context. Stephen: A demon, right, what we would call a demonwho is the one who has power out there in the wilderness. Fr. Fr. Fr. Andrew: Yeah, theres this veiling that happens. Stephen wrote this book in response to requests for an Orthodox perspective on violence in the Old Testament. And then goats get associated with the Day of Atonement, which means theyre associated with sin, blood, death, Azazel. Thats why this is the day when everything has to be purified. Furthermore, I will attempt to explicate theories on the origin of evil and provide the verses that were utilized to support these theories. Whats going on there? You take it back.. Fr. Fr. Fr. Fr. YouTube Stephen De Young from Lafayette, Louisiana. [Laughter]. So hes sort of the main motivator of that. YouTube So not only for our sins, which are taken away, but for the whole world, which is now purified and made holy and sacred, first in potency, first, as with everything eschatological, this is happening in real time, like we talked about in our Halloween episode, but this will ultimately come to fruition, then, in the new heavens and the new earth, just as, right now the evil one is bound and in a hole, and hell be chucked in the lake of fire then at that latter point. Stephen: Im Um, actually"ing you in real time. So, just what is a giant? The Lord of Spirits | Ancient Faith Ministries Fr. Fr. Email Newsletter, Terms of Use Privacy Policy Permissions Content Disclaimer, The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century, The Whole Counsel of God: An Introduction to Your Bible. Fr. So now were going to talk about how, number one, they actually didnt get it quite right, but what is the concept that that word is attempting to point to? Stephen: Right, hes clarifying. [Laughter] Yeah, not all goats are the same in every reference in Scripture, but Fr. Fr. Now, most people, when they think of atonement in the New Testament, if I came to someone just at random and said, Hey, where would I go in the New Testament to read about atonement? they would probably not immediately say 1 John. Fr. Stephen: And then as Hebrews again makes plain in Hebrews 11-12, Christ dies outside the camp. Stephen De Young Archives - Rule of Faith Andrew: Aw man. Fr. I have people who dont believe me about that, but you can look it up. No, what hes doing is hes describing what actually happens to Christ, but hes using language that should remind you of the Day of Atonement ritual in order for you to make that connection, the connection that actually does exist. Fr. Fr. Stephen: Right, we have to have it perfect, because hes going to appear, and if he appears and its imperfect, then this is going to get bad for us, for Israel. Stephen De Young The V. Rev. Andrew: Yeah, so we have in our notesbecause everyone loves it when we read from Enochic literature1 Enoch 10:8. Stephen De Young finishes up the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 12, and starts on Chapter 13. Fr. Some people like New Coke, which, now it turns out was all a conspiracy, but I wont get into that here. Im like, its: You have two goats And now theres going to be all these rumors: See? Stephen: He had to purify himself before he could come back into the camp. And I say spiritual being because it includes in a couple cases its gods and in a couple cases its dead people, the spirits of deceased people, where there has been some issue between them and a living person, so some sort of offering is made to mend that relationship. With the exception of a few details, there is nothing that a good Catholic or Protestant shouldnt be able to say a hearty Amen to. Not so great for the goat, but it keeps that from happening, which would be a very awkward moment. He holds a PhD in Biblical Studies from Amridge University and is the host of the The Whole Counsel of God podcast and co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast on Ancient Faith Radio. [Disgusted noises] All this disillusioning. I was pleased to encounter Sorensens Response to Ken Ammis review of my paper Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic? since I am always up for a discussion, always up for correction, and always up for sharpening iron with ironeven when it tends to lead to someone getting cut. Stephen: And consecrate them as sacred space. Fr. Stephen De Young inquires into what they reveal about the nature of Christ and His creation. Stephen: The blood comes and purifies, and then the Holy Spirit comes to dwell there. Stephens historical research dismantled beliefs that I held in common with thousands of other modern Christians about the Bible and its teachings. Journal of Biblical Literature 106 (1987), pp. So, speaking of that ritual context, then, the rest of what were going to be talking about is the ritual of atonement, the Day of Atonement. I think thats a net loss to you, frankly. The Whole Counsel of God: Galatians, 3:19-20. [Laughter] But when hands were laid in sacrificial rituals Its the goat for Azazel where it says he lays hands on it and then pronounces the sins. There are also some folks who want to suggest that Azazel isnt a being. And that can lead to a lot of despair. He then has broken Azazels hold over the world, and so now the whole cosmos, the whole creation can become sacred space, can be purified and can be sacred space. Fr. Andrew: [Laughter] Nothing against you, kefir-drinkers. It doesnt say that it was fulfilled by Jesus absorbing their diseases and becoming sick, or absorbing their demons and becoming possessed himself; he doesnt take it on himself in that way. So at the beginning thats Eden or paradise, but then everything outside of it, in comparison. [Laughter]. Stephen: 1 Maccabees talks about the Battle of Emmaus. Stephen: So both of them have to be perfect and unblemished, because theyre going to be used for two different purposes, but which one is used for which purpose is decided by lot. Fr. Stephen: Yeah, and St. Johns going to say this has happened. Andrew Damick, Michael Landsman, and Ancient Faith Radio, Fr. Yeah, so why? To cover the taste of bad food? Stephen: Right, and you especially dont need to bring any livestock to the church. Stephen: So that, through death, he might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, namely, the devil: destroy the devil. To learn more, view ourPrivacy Policy. Fr. This is Christ as being the goat for Yahweh. Thats where the feast comes from, the feast of lights. Sorry, preview is currently unavailable. It is good. One of them Im going to sacrifice, so that one we go and we lay hands on it to say: This is the sheep that were going to offer to God. Fr. Fr. But, yeah, the goat for Azazel has sins placed upon it, in contrast for the goat for Yahweh. Thats like everyones evening devotional reading right there. They and their children were sprinkled at the blood at the beginning of the old covenant, and now we have been sprinkled and purified with the blood of Christ. So thats the non-narrative theology way to say it. Im like, why dont we start with: What does the Bible say? Orthodox Christian priests Fr. That mentions Azazel, doesnt it? Hope for the Future and the Religion of the Apostles | with Fr. Stephen There are sort of a handful, I think four or five, uses of it in the first century AD and later, and like half of those are by Plutarch, by one author. Fr. The early Christians did not deduce the doctrine of the Trinity from the fact that they were worshiping Jesus, nor did they come up with Trinitarian theology as a way of buffering the Church against heresy. So he gives some of these details, so some of the details we get from that are a scarlet cord being tied around the goats head, and that when they after the sins had been placed on the goat, the people would sort of gather in the streets, and they would get reeds, and theyd strike the goat and hit it to sort of drive it out. But in terms of using the term and talking about it as a concept, 1 John is the place. Stephen: And the next verse in 1 John, verse 13, says that the reason he killed Abel is that Abels works were good and Cains works were evil. Fr. Stephen: Yeah, so I dont want to get too granular about this, because theres actually, when you get into literature about thisI did my dissertation related to this, so I read all the literature on this. Remember, the blood of this goat is used to purify sacred space. I have two good friends who left the Orthodox church and now refer me to the Old Testament to clinch some version of the following argument: See, substitutionary atonement is real, so the Orthodox are actually heterodox when they deny this. Well folks, the Orthodox Church does teach substitutionary atonement, and if you dont believe me, read chapter 7 of The Religion of the Apostles. Stephen: Az is a goat. En (James A.) Fr. Again, this isnt just a random connection. Fr. The scholar on Slavonic pseudepigrapha so if you want to get into Slavonic pseudepigraphaand who doesnt?is Andrei Orlov, and hes written a ton, and a lot of its available for free on the internet, if you want to read scholarly journal articles. Stephen: And we dont normally think about Cain a lot, but when we do we think about the story of Cain and Abel and, oh yeah, hes a murderer; hes a bad guy. Stephen: Or even mercy-seat bands, if we want to be really old school. Welcome to The Lord of Spirits podcast. The Whole Counsel of God: An Introduction to Your Bible: Stephen De Fr. Photius: No, they dont. The Judaism at the time of Christ was entirely centered on the temple, but the temple was destroyed in AD 70. How does God see it working? I think weve seen tonight how a lot of discussions of atonement are based on reading backwards, so you start with a developed theological idea, read it back into the New Testament, and then from there back into the Old Testament, instead of what we hopefully did with reasonable success tonight, which is start in the Old Testament and read forward and see how things unfold. Photius in Texas. And if hes of Azazel, this one whos teaching this forbidden knowledge, then hes doing the works of his father, so to speak; hes imaging Azazel. So the first thing the high priest has to do is he has to, in order to prepare to enter the space, offer a whole ton of incensenot a little, not one scoop. Stephen: Yes, of material objects and physical space. Now, while "the psychological characteristics of the Nephilim are not specifically described in the Bible" neither is that they "had distinct physical characteristics of large size and great strength" nor that they were "generally pictured as being very proud, belligerent, sexually aggressive, and prone to conflicttall, strong, and belligerentphysically intimidatingNephilic characteristics of height, musculature, and psychopathology." But we have As we talked about last time, the sin-offerings that are being offered every day are not transactional. The Book of Enoch: Scripture, Heresy, or What? Fr. But if we understand it as covering, which is the perfect word, because were about to talk about what this actually does, but the concept is based on this idea that there is sacred space that has been set aside for the holiness of God to be present there with the people, but that the peoples sins interfere with that, that they actually stain the place. So to prepare for that, he has to offer a special sin-offering for himself, because he needs to be, because hes going to go all the way in, he has to be at this state of purity and holiness that is unsurpassed. Fr. Fr. Andrew: Yeah, another super-important point, that the goat that gets the sins is not killed and cannot be killed as a sacrifice. Fr. Just read the I mean, yes, sometimes some passages are very difficult, require a lot of interpretation, but when the question is, What is ritually done with a goat? you could just open up Leviticus and read it. It sounds like were FBI profilers. Where there post-flood Nephilim, were Nephilim "giants," was King Og the result of "demonic fornication," etc. Fr. Fr. But firstand this is where the English language nerd in me comes leaping outlets talk about this English word, atonement. Okay, so, Fr. People have atonement theories. If it read that way, then youre asking the natural question, which is what mediates between? And our purpose is as St. Johns purpose: These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ and that, believing, you may have life in his name. Thats the purpose of this podcast. Fr. Stephen: Sin leaves a taint, not just on us. Fr. [Laughter]. Andrew: So, okay, a question that suddenly occurs to me is I mean, theres kind of a generalnow, maybe Im wrong about this, but I thought there was kind of a general rule of Dont touch the ark of the covenant, and of course Ive seen Raiders of the Lost Ark; I know what happens if you open it. For we did not follow cleverly imagined stories when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. Stephen: Everyone loves to read Leviticus. About Fr. 190 Court St, Charleston, WV 25301 | Phone: 304-346-0106 | Email: office@stgeorgecharleston.org. Fr. 19, Midrash and Aggadah Mourning, eds. I expected the book to be my final vindication in dozens of ongoing debates with well-meaning brothers and sisters who keep telling me that knowledge of the Second Temple period (roughly the period in Jewish history from the reconstruction of the Temple at the time of Nehemiah through it its destruction in AD 70) is neither necessary nor helpful for understanding the New Testament. Stephen: Yeah, you could pretty safely use the same list every year, because all of that had happened again. Fr. So, actually, there is really important theology and teaching and doctrine thats in these three letters. Fr. Fr. Fr. Fr. So they rededicate the Temple, and although it didnt happen that time, when the tabernacle is dedicated, when the Temple was dedicated by Solomon, after everything is dedicated, after the blood is used to purify everything and consecrate everything, then the presence of God enters in as this fiery cloud. This is so cool. When the book of Enoch lists what the different rebellious angelic beings taught to humans, what Azazel is listed as having taught are the same things that Tubal-cain in Genesis 4:2 because if theres anything people love more than Slavonic pseudepigrapha, its genealogies. 35 min; APR 17, 2023; Revelation 12:1-9 Revelation 12:1-9. Theyre claiming some kind of economic theory of atonement here! Yeah, no. Stephen: Right, and this goat is so unclean, by the way, that the goat would be led out by a designated person and tied to a bush or a shrub out in the wilderness, and the person who did that was rendered unclean by it, from just like being around that goat, the sin-goat. But Im not sure that the body of the book establishes this. Its not a big mystery. How could that have happened? Photius, are you there? God Is a Man of War Okay, by all means. That is the place where it is most key that this happens within the sanctuary. He holds a PhD in Biblical Studies from Amridge University. Fr. Fr. Stephen De Young continues the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 13. According to the transliterations of the ancient literary corpus of the Near Eastern and Western Civilizations, evil has been extant since the beginning of time: it arguably reared its head in the first book of the Old Testament (Gen. 3.1, 4.8, 6.1-4); Mesopotamian literature, antedating the Pentateuch by at least several centuries, describes wars, the wraths of the gods, and a tyrannical king; and, originating millennia earlier, Sumerian poems depict spiritual anguish in the afterworld and tribal warfare. It is very common for all kinds of, shall we say, advanced theological ideas, that have come into being over time, through a long history of development, to all be read back into usually the Greek word in the New Testament. Stephen: Right. Its sharing a meal with your god. Andrew: Its a response. I can tell you all about Arrakis, the desert planet; I can tell you all about Gallifrey; I can tell you all about Nimbus [III], the planet of galactic peace. The only other place where the phrase for the whole world, or the phrase the whole world, tou olou kosmou, occurs in 1 John is in chapter 5, the verse we read: The whole world lies under the power of the evil one. So if you want to interpret the whole world in 1 John 2:2 as referring to the people in the world, then St. John is saying that all the people in the world lie under the power of the evil one, which would include himself and the Church, and that makes no sense in the context of the epistle where hes clearly distinguishing between two groups of people. Stephen: And these things that the evil one has wrought in the world are here in the world and need to be purged out, need to be purified, need to be atoned for in that sense, need to be removed, wiped away, blotted out. [Laughter] Its very literal. Did it eradicate it? So its not about me, or me and Fr. They see this as a kind or type of atonement. Fr. Andrew: Yeah, and theres this distinction, then, that is made I mean, this comes in the creation, where youve got the whole sort of world of chaos versus the ordered space that God sets up. Fr. Fr. Google Podcasts - The Whole Counsel [Laughter]. Andrew: Did you have a second question? There are many economic and health benefits to a love relationship, yet if a man holds his wifes hand merely to experience those benefits, then we rightly say this is perverse. Well, before we go to break, we actually do have a call, and this is our friend, Fr. Fr. Okay, now we get to talk about one of my favorite placesEmmaus! He is this desert spirit. So those are some of my take-aways from our conversation this evening. For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was carried to him by the majestic glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased,. [Laughter] How many times have we said now: The killing is not ritualized in any way? Fr. Could that be the real AI apocalypse that we should be worried about? Name that word! How does God make it happen?. Oh, man, whats happening here? [Laughter] I just need to read this word. These are possibly the basis of the Greek Gigantomachy, which was condemned by the Risen Christ as Satans Throne, both genetically and spiritually. [Laughter]. So, sort of prophetically, it said theres going to be this sort of eschatological Day of Atonement thats going to take care of Azazel and take care of this sin and corruption and take care of sacred space sort of once and for all. It not only leaves that reside and that taint within us, but within the people around us and in the actual, physical creation itself. Stephen: So the name of this angel is Yahweh-God. Heres the thing, though. So it does end up being germane to our topic this evening. Andrew: [Laughter] That we always get! There is literally no informationnow, this ritual, when you read Leviticus 16, theres a lot of detail here; weve already started with some of it, were going to have more detail as we go, but exactly whats to be done, there is no detail on how this goat is to be killed. Item No. Two things had to first happen for Trinitarian theology to be hammered out, or so I thought. Fr. Andrew: So its not like the Slavic word that has to do with a gross-tasting bubbling beverage, kefir? Fr. Augh! What we reliably know about them is, "Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came into the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. The book is deeply scholarly and deeply spiritual at the same time. Andrew: Yeah, so theres that sense of domination of demons in the world, especially Azazel. And, one way or another, thats going to kill the goat. Fr. Fr. Fr. I mean, that is just an overarching commandment of the whole Scripture: no idolatry, ever. So the correct translation is not only for our sins, but for the whole world. The words, those of, do not occur. What does that stuff say about him? Get that goat out of here. So lets talk about what St. John says about this. Fr. Stephen: Can you hear me? was your one question for tonight, unfortunately. Stephen De Young and Fr. Fr. Fr. Can you hear me? We have Dan from New York, and he has a question specifically about the Day of Atonement ritual. Andrew: Yeah, with a goat-head and big, leathery wings. Fr. Fr. Here's the link to the Revelation 7 episode that he mentions: ancientfaith.com/podcasts/wholecounsel/revelation_7_1_8. Stephen De Young Easily the most important work in Pauline Studies, and likely in Biblical Studies as a whole, of the current decade is Matthew Thomas' published Oxford dissertation, Paul's "Works of the Law" in the Perspective of Second Century Reception. Fr. Stephen De Young discusses verses 19 and 20 of Galatians, Chapter 3. So we have again in Leviticus 16 a fair amount of detail describing exactly whats going on. Fr. Fr. The blood is used, the blood is smeared, wiped, used to cover. And what hes doing here is hes taking this idea of the purification of sacred space, so if we imagine that theres sort of this layer of darkness over the whole world and theres sort of this dome, a dome of light over Israel, over the camp in the wilderness, over Israel as a nation, over Judah, Judea, and thats being purified sort of under the dome, is being cleansed and purified and being kept pure. Andrew: Okay, but havent I heard that the goat actually got throne off a cliff? So Azazel and Second Temple literature. We understand theres kind of like a pipeline from there to here. Stephen: Right, well, we cant hang that on all Protestants, but, yeah, sometimes. The purpose of this paper is to examine the Biblical text tracing the seed of Satan, namely the Nephilim, and Rephaim. Stephen: Well, he actuallyI think youre mixing him with Pompey, the Roman general, Fr. We have a text in the New Testament that says that those very verses were fulfilled in Christs ministry. Andrew: Yeah, and if you look at Leviticus I mean, you dont have to read the whole book of Leviticus, but if you look at Leviticus 16, which is the chapter that has this ritual in it, you can just read it, and it shows Im looking at it right now, and it says: Aaron must then present the goat which has been designated by lot for the Lord, and he is to make it a sin-offering, but the goat which has been designated by lot for Azazel is to be still alive. Then later on it makes the reference to him putting his hands on the goat for Azazel and sends it out, but theres not unless Im missing it, it doesnt actually say anything about putting his hands on the other goat. It says that Christ is the atonement or the propitiation for our sins, not for ours only but also for the whole world. Just so you all know, its really good. [Laughter] Its the opposite! So the other goat is for Azazel.
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